Our detractors

I for one love the MRM and the wonderful things that we can accomplish but there are those,women and manginas,that hate us.

Who hates us,Masc?

I'm glad you brought that up. There are three known blogs that are hating on us. First up is some bitch who started ragging on us with this:

My problems with MRA's and PUA's

April 26, 2011

I first encountered MRA’s and gamers 2 to 3 years ago (I was roughly 15 or 16). I started
browsing InMalaFide, Spearhead, Roosh and Roissy but then something started brewing.

Something often baffling. At first they started attacking feminism and other ills but all of
the sudden they started opposing and even blaming the wrongs of our society on traditional
conservatives and reactionaries. They called me a female arrogant supremacist, that I wanted
to shackle them, trick them and how marriage is slavery. That conservatives “pedestalize”
women and how we are influenced by ‘Victorian ideals’ of womanhood. I realized that while
they had some great insight on occasion, many times they were despicable. These days I only
go to Grerp, OmegaVirginRevolt, ElusiveWapiti, Dalrock and websites alike instead of other
websites on the manosphere. They have lost my support due to their altogether misguided
notions and pessimism. In all MRA’s and gamers are not a reaction against feminism. They
only reject one strand of liberalism while accepting the worldview as a whole (and we all
know how that turns out). They, not traditional conservatives, are the mirror image of
feminists.

http://ozconservative.blogspot.com/2010/05/revealing-political-profiles.html
http://ozconservative.blogspot.com/2010/12/separatism-is-wrong-turn.html
http://onestdv.blogspot.com/2011/04/anti-family-attitude-of-manosphere.html
http://www.thinkinghousewife.com/wp/2011/02/the-bullies-speak/
http://www.thinkinghousewife.com/wp/2011/02/excommunicated-yet-again/
http://omegavirginrevolt.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/a-lot-of-truth/
Entry filed under: Gender Studies. Tags: .

Conservatives and traditionalists are feminist enablers if they weren't Sarah Palin wouldn't have gone anywhere near the feminist label she embraces and if conservatives and other traditionalists weren't feminist enablers characters like Sean Hannity wouldn't be playing the pro-woman card every time he gets the chance. So if conservatives/traditionalists are going to sell the bullshit line that they are different than their liberal counterparts when it comes to gender issues they better take that sales pitch down the line because I can tell you one thing and that is a lot of MRA's are not buying that bullshit so go sell it somewhere else.

Next we have some mangina that goes by the handle onestdv or maybe it's "onewithstd's",whatever. This is what he and his followers have said:

In my post entitled Anti-Family Attitude of Manosphere, a commenter predictably deemed me the MRA equivalent of a small-penis loser who lives in his mom's basement:

Your true colors are showing. A palid shade of white knight...
Of course, I saw this type of baseless invective coming. Because after all, many MRAs exist
as feminist doppelgangers, eager to shame and insult anyone who doesn't agree with their
gender hatred. This largely explains why many have turned away from The Spearhead. But as
with the perennially unsatisfied anti-racists, MRAs accept nothing less than full acceptance
of their creed. Unless one is ideologically pure, a standard that they move capriciously and
frequently, you're a despicable "white knight".

So just for kicks, let's review what has made me this sort of spineless fellow. Let's see
what unreasonable positions I took in the aforementioned post:

1) The nuclear family is the bedrock of civilization.
2) Women are valuable as more than just prostitutes.
3) A romantic relationship has more benefits than just physical pleasure.
4) Marriage has risks, but sometimes they're very much worth it.
5) Fatherhood is a rewarding experience integral to the emotional health of children.
6) (Modern SWPL) Women can be petulant, mannish, and entitled, but also uniquely endearing
as only feminine women can be.
7) MRAs express a female-like neuroticism because they whine and focus so much on what could
happen.
8) A return to patriarchy should be the goal, not men going their own way.
Pretty outlandish stuff, right? But you can never satisfy the MRAs who legitimately hate
women, even when I countenance a return to patriarchy where, in the words of the mainstream,
I want to banish women back to the kitchen. These men, in a position that should stupefy any
reasonable individual, don't see men and women as two necessary components of a stable
society; they actually think "going their own way" will somehow work. Or the really funny
ones that think robots can replace real women. I wonder how many of them have Real Dolls
already.

So where does this come from? I imagine they're gay (destroy heterosexuality as a means of
normalizing homosexuality), bitter (people hate what they're not good at), anti-white
(destroy American whites as a collective by undermining the basic unit the family and trying
to divert the focus to white feminists instead of NAMs), or jealous (if they can't get any,
no one should).
Posted by OneSTDV at 11:20 AM
Labels: Blogosphere, Feminism, Gender

Sounds like this mangina hates the "white knight" label. Too bad you don't like it because you earned it. If you are expecting followers of this moron to be any smarter don't hold your breath,especially when you take a look at the following:

Chicago said...
I don't think there's very many men in the so-called "manosphere"; they cry a bit too much
for my taste.

Sure, there's issues of divorce law inequity and so on but is that all that's really going
on here? Why the neurotic, obsessive fixation on the supposed gender war?

The guy that says paying a series of hookers is preferable to having a reliable spouse (or
girlfriend) is out of it. What, was his own mother a hooker? Would he have preferred that as
his inheritance?

Lots of people out there with all kinds of hangups. They just elevate it all to some
seemingly rational sounding school of thought where they get to petulantly lash out at those
they find threatening.

5/01/2011 12:59 PM

Unlike traditionalists MRA's are opposed to being slaves to a system that despises them and unlike conservatives/traditionalists MRA's see the beast aka the matriarchy for the evil that it truly is. Conservatives/traditionalists will be the last ones to acknowledge that the matriarchal queen is evil and they will pay dearly for this folly.

Cul-De-Sac Hero said...
MRA's need a good kick in the pants to smarten them up. The similarities between some MRA's
and the most extreme feminist man-haters is obvious to reasonable readers and threatens to
undermine the movement before it can accomplish any of it's laudable and necessary goals.
MGTOW may be a viable personal choice but sounds more like a way of rationalizing one's lack
of dates or justifying one's loneliness and subsequent bitterness. It certainly is not a
viable political movement.

5/01/2011 1:30 PM

No,I believe it is conservatives/traditionalists that need the slapping upside the head to make them acknowledge the evil side of women and like most right wing brain dead idiots they would rather go through hell than acknowledge this fact. Not a viable political movement? Tell that to Mary N. Kellett. Tell it to Sharon Osbourne. Not a viable political movement my ass.

Novaseeker said...
What you're writing about MRA's could easily be written about social and Christian
reactionaries who curse modernity with a passion; they would even want to do away with all
of modernity's blessings if it would mean the end of modernity's irritants. I mean, really,
excepting racial preferences and mass immigration from the Third World is it all really that
bad in the West? I beg to differ.

This is the perspective I'm coming around to myself as well.
What we have on the internet are a lot of malcontents with the current setup. The
differences between them are (1) what they see as the source of their malcontent and (2)
what they see as the solution to their malcontent. And, in general, they disagree bitterly
and vehemently with each other over their respective utopian visions of return to a better
world before "X" happened.

That's not going to work, folks.

There are MRAs who are doing real activism work like Glenn Sacks. To me, that's "real" MRA
-- actually lobbying to change some of the laws incrementally (as it tends to work in our
system), rather than writing endless critiques of the current system in the blogosphere and
hoping for some kind of systemic collapse. So many people are highly invested in the idea
that a collapse is imminent -- MRAs, Trads, WNs, racists/anti-racists/anti-anti-racists,
garden variety nihilists like FB, and various strains of extremes on the left and the right
alike. Bide you time, hope for a collapse, and then we can be rid of "X" that we dislike
about contemporary society, and all will be well (or at least better). This corner of the
internet has become a bit unhinged, really.

A far better approach, it seems to me, is to engage with the current reality on its own
terms. You don't have to like the current setup, but you do have to live in it. Even if you
MGTOW, you're still a part of the "system", and don't kid yourself into thinking that there
is a huge groundswell of men doing MGTOW, because there isn't, and there never will be. And
if you're a patriarchal advocate, that's fine and well if you can pull that off in your own
private life despite the general mores, but the general mores themselves are not going to
become patriarchal again anytime soon, regardless of what you advocate. The pendulum hasn't
even gotten to the end of its anti-patriarchal swing yet, frankly. Things are still
progressing further and further away from patriarchy and its norms, and this does not seem
to be slowing down.

Reality is what it is. We don't have to follow social norms if we don't like them. But
building one's life and ideology and worldview around the idea that the current world setup
must collapse in order for things to be okay. Like it or lump it, we need to engage the
world that we have on its terms in whatever way makes sense to us. Just live your lives in a
way that makes sense. Scared of getting married? Fine, then don't get married. Don't like
NAMs? Fine, then vote for people who oppose immigration and don't live around NAMs. But the
fact that you don't want to get married or that you don't like NAMs will not change the
current setup one bit. It's much bigger than you, and far bigger than the discontent that
comes spewing from this corner of the internet on a regular basis.

5/01/2011 3:12 PM

Glenn Sacks is an excellent example but then again so is Harry Crouch,president of the NCFM,Paul Elam,myself and other MRA's that are activist or work behind the scenes to make it a better world for men so let's not forget them.

Whiskey said...
MRA's don't offer a social solution to the problem. Which is the failure to replicate the
nuclear family down this generation. If men go their own way or not, the size of that population is trivial. It would not matter if they went 19th Century Mormon with twelve wives or had no children or girlfriends at all.

What matters is restarting the Nuclear Family above all. Charles Murray is pessimistic for
the Working Class which has abandoned it among Whites, and says the Middle Class is sliding
that way. Only the upper class among Whites retains the Nuclear Family values and behavior.

5/01/2011 3:16 PM

Whiskey said...
Ultimately I'd add that MGTOW, MRA are completely irrelevant. Sperm is cheap, eggs are
expensive. Women alone matter, men do not. Men will be whatever kind of man women want them to be. Since Women decide, and men do not. Outside of a repressive Muslim society anyway
which "solves" that problem akin to getting rid of a wart on your foot by cutting off your
foot.

I am not optimistic on the central problem of restarting the nuclear family among Working
Class Whites and Middle Class Whites (Charles Murray notes that only the Upper Classes among
Whites have strong nuclear families, the Working Class has abandoned it and the Middle Class
is in the process). I don't think most White women absent the goodies that UPPER CLASS White
men produce, can be persuaded to trade a "boring" nuclear family against "sexy" single
motherhood with shared Alpha males.

I'll note that choice first came upon Black women, they chose Sexy. Then Hispanic women (if
you trace illegitimacy rates against time, there is a huge change/jump for each cohort).
Driving a BMW and vacationing at Jackson Hole over Christmas is worth putting up with
forgone Sexy. The suburbs (which I consider along with Sailer from 1955-1986 to be pure
paradise for the average guy) not so much.

5/01/2011 3:22 PM

Want to hear something ironic? Whiskey is a Spearhead contributor. Does Wilmer know about these posts?

Walenty Lisek said...
"The guy that says paying a series of hookers is preferable to having a reliable spouse (or
girlfriend) is out of it."

When it comes to the men who talk like this I assume their sexual market value is low and by
low I mean like those "true forced loneliness" guys.

At the start of the video below you can see what a few of them look like. If they can get
women at all, those women would be so undesirable that a hooker may very well be preferable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xg8nek158w

These kinds of men don't earn our pity but rather they earn our reflexive disgust. You can
judge a book by it's cover and these guys look fucked up.

5/01/2011 4:49 PM

Ever breakdown the word "assume"? Let's do it: when you "assume" you make an "ass" out of "u" and "me". The way you conservative/traditional assholes brag about how your way of life is better than anyone else's surely means that you guys have a wife and kids and very good home life. Right? Right? *rolls eyes* Jackasses.

PA said...
-- I mean, really, excepting ... mass immigration from the Third World is it all really that
bad in the West?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?"

Besides mass non-white immigration, EVERY other problem this sphere discusses would be
self-correcting. Every single one: misandry, low birthrates, hypergamy, political
correctness, black crime, and so on.

That's why race/immigration is in my opinion THE most important problem, and I have little
interest in MRAs who argue that men across races are to form an adversarial front against
women as women.

Novaseeker, I like your comment here and yesterday at Chuck's by the way. I disagree with
your apparent acceptance of the inevitability of global pressures on lower-class Americans,
but your perspective gave me quite a bit to think about and an opportunity to recalibrate my
approach a bit.

-- What we have on the internet are a lot of malcontents with the current setup. ... That's
not going to work, folks.

There are malcontents, wierdos, and omegas in the Sphere, no doubt. Apocalypse-porn addicts
are prevalent here too. Nonwithstanding, there is a lot of very good dialogue on these
blogs, and malcontentment is not the first thing I notice -- what I notice is passion for
change and a clear-eyed understanding of problems that face our society.

These discussions aren't mere bitching sessions. They serve the cause by honing our
persepctive and argumentation skills; they let us know that contra media/education complex,
we're not alone in thinking what we're thinking.

Also importantly, these alt-right blogs have real-life impact in that they filter up to
people in positions of influence like activists, journos, politicians possibly, who borrow
Roissy's or Sailer's arguments.

-- I am not optimistic ...

Really, Whiskey? you don't say...

5/01/2011 5:55 PM

This guy sounds like those white nationalists nuts that better stay the hell out of our movement. I have addressed black-on-white crime but I've also acknowledged the plight of the black man so I like to think I'm being fair about it. The white nationalists are a lot different than that,they will beat up a non-white man and kiss white female ass. They will especially beat up a non-white man because a white female put them up to it. They can stay in the conservative/traditional camp as far as I'm concerned because if they come over to us with those views they won't like the reception.

Anonymous said...
"The pendulum hasn't even gotten to the end of its anti-patriarchal swing yet, frankly.
Things are still progressing further and further away from patriarchy and its norms, and
this does not seem to be slowing down."

It doesn't matter what percent of women are sluts. It just matters how many children smart
women of good character have. There is no other source for good people than good people.

5/01/2011 5:59 PM

Who are these "good women" and how are they different than the sluts? It is difficult to tell the difference between the two and if you fall prey to a convincing liar you are fucked. I suggest the conservatives/traditionalists take the red pill and take it right away. The faster the better.

PA said...
There is also a vocal contingent of MRAs whose roots are in non-Western countries. There is
often a palpable contempt for women as women in their rhetoric. This point of view is very
alien to a European, culturally-Christian man, who traditionally sees women as as partners
and helpmeets subordinate to us as men but equal as human beings and before God.

Meanwhile, non-Westerners, even those from high-functioning backgrounds, generally treated
women as chattle and that sort of twerpish attitude comes through loudly.

5/01/2011 6:27 PM

So does your fucking ignorance. Helpmates? Where the fuck have you been? Guess who files the majority of divorces on the flimsiest of grounds? Your helpmate,that's who. Maybe these non-western MRA's that you spit on have a better understanding of women than you do.

OneSTDV said...
As always, great comments PA.

HalfSigma likes to talk about people possessing gravity and I always think of that adjective
when reading your comments.

That's why race/immigration is in my opinion THE most important problem, and I have little
interest in MRAs who argue that men across races are to form an adversarial front against
women as women.

Of course. I supported this idea in a thread awhile back at In Mala Fide and boy did some of
them get angry. And this is why I added in the non-white motivation at the bottom of this
post.

I believe Chuck has come to understand this as well (I originally thought of him as a gender
blogger and even though he eviscerates them frequently, I'm pretty sure he agrees.)

5/01/2011 7:11 PM

Every man is in the same boat today regardless of color and the conservos/trads don't give a shit but did they ever? No,so fuck them. Like I said earlier if the conservos/trads want to practice racism keep in their own camp because we don't want it anywhere near us.

Guess who else is a detractor of ours lately? Yep,it is Roissy and he said the following:

Men truly going their own, vagina-free, way (and not simply men trying to score internet debate points by claiming to go their own way but still banging on the sly) are likely mating market losers who find comfort in pretending to wish away the allure of women. No one’s buying it, just as no one buys the claptrap by fat feminists insisting that fat women are lusted after by winner men and only social conditioning prevents these men from dating all the grotesque and ill-mannered fatties they really desire.

Roissy,like most PUA's,is a mangina pussy begger. His type seeks approval from women. The only difference between him and the conscious men crowd is that the conscious men crowd can at least acknowledge they are slaves to pussy whereas guys like Roissy like to think that they are in control of women. Game only works as long as women allow it to and if they put their foot down and refuse to abide in it no amount of game is going to accomplish your goals. A lot of PUA's forget this and think they are in charge when in reality it is the woman who is in charge. Also keep in mind that game can be a fasttrack to a prison cell if she hits you with a false rape charge. Something you may want to keep in mind the next time you use game.

Let's see some of the pearls of wisdom his readers post:

Master Dogen-on July 23, 2011 at 3:45 pm

“Men going their own way” should go whole hog and join a religious community, or become serious scholars of something difficult, like ancient Anglo-Saxon poetry or something.

There have always been men in the West who “went their own way.” The thing is, they used to be respectable, interesting, occasionally even holy people. Now they just make a lot of cheap, hyperbolic noise on websites with poor graphic design.

It's strange that Dogen should mention that because that is exactly whom Roissy chose to align himself with,religious fanatics. Don't politics make strange bedfellows.

Artem on July 23, 2011 at 6:10 pm
What’s the difference between a PUA and an MRA?

An emphasis on results in one’s chosen endeavor.

A PUA ruthlessly examines every aspect of his game with the goal of improving his results.

Too many MRAs seem unconcerned that for all their ‘activism’, so feminist seems even remotely worried that MRAs will hold them accountable.

What results have MRAs delivered towards their stated goals?

I've mentioned two that are scared to death of us but if you must know we are currently trying to get VAWA amended. The amended version of VAWA is the PVRA and we are lobbying bigtime on that one. Like I said false accusations are as common as beer in a bar so if you are a PUA you may want to keep your attorney on speeddial.

Doug1-on July 24, 2011 at 1:12 am
What’s the difference between a PUA and an MRA?

Laying girls or not.

I don't need women to reaffirm my manhood. Can you say the same,Doug? Nope,didn't think so.

Neil Hansen-on July 23, 2011 at 4:23 pm

It’s not really a manifesto so much as it’s just a list of truths. MGTOW isn’t possible unless you use prostitutes. No man can go without pussy, unless he is a monk.

I went for coffee today in the trendy spot of my west coast city. Lots of SWPL men and women covered from head to tie with tattoos and piercings. If I had any advice for men today, it would be that women, for whatever reason, genuinely want to be regarded as “hoes.” I do not know what explains this phenomenon. Children are the last thing on a woman’s mind, unless she can have them on her terms, like Madonna. Men are simply optional sperm donors to today’s woman. It actually isn’t that bad for men if women don’t really value men as fathers for their children. We just simply pump n dump and pay the monthly $500 and move on to the next bang. Women get complete control of their vaginas. Not a bad trade-off. So long as women seem to have no concern about the future of society or their children, this is how things will be. And there is some data suggesting that children from single-parent families fare just fine. Mind you I am in an affluent west coast city full of whites and asians. The asian women are not yet ready to be regarded as full-blown “hoes”, so they aren’t sporting the tats and piercing – yet. But the white girls are ready…boy, are they ready. I will admit that single motherhood for latins and blacks is the kiss of death. Gangs and violence will surely follow. For wealthy whites, art school and cinematography follows.

Patriarchy isn’t coming back, not in my lifetime anyway. So I wouldn’t suggest MGTOW; that isn’t possible. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: you don’t even necessarily need game. There are millions of girls in the Phlippines that need loving. If you don’t have game, just save your money and take your vacay in the Phils. A single man can save $20,000 per year. Play video games and get a happy-ending massage from time to time. Make sure you get your Twinrix and Gardasil shots to help prevent STD’s. In the meantime think of your house you can build on the beach in the Philippines.

There is no need to go the way of Sodini. There is no need for MGTOW. I know too many guys with multiple girlfriends in the Phils, Thailand and Indonesia to keep an average man happy.

Yes, I am a little sad that modern women only want to be recognized for their pussies. As I said, I cannot explain this phenomenon. For two centuries they fought against this, and wanted to be valued for their brains. It is indeed a strange world. So when I look at them and see them covered in tats and slut uniforms, I am perplexed. But….fuck it. Save your money boys and dream of SE Asian pussy! There is lots of it!

Then again, you can learn game. Only about 5 or 10% of the male population knows how to practice it successfully. Me, I am too lazy. And the pussy isn’t really worth the effort. It’s just too easy to get a massage and a bj once a month or bimonthly. If this disgusts you, your only hope is Game. Game requires effort and conscious work. And practice. You need to be socially plugged in. Where do you work? Do you have status? You cannot have Game and also be devoid of some status. You cannot have Game and simply work as a shlub somewhere; your work needs to have some Status, witha capital S.

Great post, Roissy. Discrediting MRA and MGTOW needs to happen. MGTOW isn’t possible. MRA is the equivalent of feminism. Game is the only solution, but if you don’t have it, I have a solution of my own:

ASIA.

If there is anyone who is as braindead as Roissy is it is Neil Hansen. I guess these assholes call themselves "pick up artists" because the term "pussy beggers" is demeaning to them. Demeaning but accurate. Asia? Catherine Kieu Becker is from Asia and look what she did to her husband. If you call that "paradise" then you and I have different defintions of "paradise".

Artem-on July 23, 2011 at 6:01 pm

I do agree that a lot of MRAs are whiners. For one thing, for all their ‘activism’, feminists never worry about getting in trouble with MRAs for saying something misandric on national TV.

So MRAs are not really a pressure group if no feminist or mangina is afraid of being held to account by MRAs.

You're wrong and I've already addressed this.

Betadyermom on July 24, 2011 at 11:45 am
MRA seems to be mostly an internet circlejerk which is self-contained in their own little corner of the blogsphere. There doesn’t seem to be whole lot of “advocacy” going on — there’s no organization, no spokesmen, no media talking points, very few allies in academia, etc.

Seems like a lot of MRAs use it as a form of therapy. So, yeah, they come off as whiners — a lot of complaining and not a whole lot of action.

Open your eyes,close your mouth and maybe you'll learn something.

xsplat on July 24, 2011 at 2:13 pm
a lot of complaining and not a whole lot of action.

This is the center of it.

MRAs want to fix the problem. So they talk about what the problem is. Never realizing that social problems don’t have social causes – they have technical causes. Human culture is embedded in the modes of production and other tehnological facets that now make up how it functions.

MRAs can not even see the causes, let alone agree on what effects they’d like to see.

PUAs don’t have to know what the causes are, they are clear what effect they want, and they work towards that. It’s very personal, and achievable, on an individual level.

At least I'm not on the road to getting an STD. Can you say that? You're not one of us and we know how to stratigize to go after our goals so shut the fuck up.

Old Guy-on July 23, 2011 at 8:40 pm
Being a father has its good days and bad days. It is a complex game to play well, and a very expensive hobby. It can become a horror show for the unwilling forced to play. I advise young men to be careful where they plant their seed.

I only discovered the MRM in the last few months, though I have realized the need for men’s liberation for a long time. Unfortunately, the least marketable types seem to be the face of the movement; the whiny bitch MGTOWs and the woman haters.

We seem to be going great guns,not bad for a bunch of misogynists.

I don't know why Roissy and the religious right is on our shit but if the feminists put them up to it then it is very telling of them and where their loyalties are and if feminists are responsible for this it just goes to show we are getting their attention and they are getting very scared. Not only scared it seems but desperate as well. So what do we do? Stay the course and achieve our goals,that's what we do.